How important is understanding your customer? Knowing their pain points, how they think, how they make buying decisions?
In this episode, we talk to Daniel Shoar, founder of Bukit, a revolutionary new service booking platform. We discuss his previous successes, how he travelled and lived alongside his target customers to truly understand their motivations and behaviours.
Episode Links
Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
Forbes – Business Lessons Learned from Living out of a Suitcase
Episode Transcript
Matthew Todd
Hi.
My name is Matthew Todd, and welcome to Inside the scale up. This is the podcast for founders, executives in tech, looking to make an impact and learn from their peers within the tech business, we lift the lid on tech businesses, interview leaders and following their journey from startup to scale up and beyond covering everything from developing product market fit, funding and fundraising models to value proposition structure and growth marketing. We learn from their journey so that you can understand how they really work, the failures, the success the lessons along the way, so that you can take their learnings and apply them within your own startup or scale up and join the ever growing list of high growth UK SAS businesses.
Hey, and welcome back to the podcast here this morning with Daniel Shor. As always, I’ll let the guests introduce themselves. Tell me about their company what it is they do. But no thank you for for joining me this morning. Thank you for taking the time. It’s a pleasure. I appreciate having me on the podcast and I look forward to explaining my journey. So far as an entrepreneur over the last eight years, it’s been a uncommon one, for better or worse. And
Daniel Shoar
I’ve gotten to be able to see some cool things with my first venture, which I’ve resolved from now. But my new company book, it is essentially a alert startup similar to Airbnb, and its simplicity but it’s basically selling services so selling units of time as inventory. So any service provider ranging from a chiropractor to a mental health professional, tennis lesson golf us and hair salon, massage spa, you know, all in one at aggregator so that the user can find what they need. And it’s a two quick process. They make it like Amazon just easy peasy. And eventually the the users will get loyalty no further
you know, use that we would expect that we expect the retention rate to be quite high. Because let’s face it, who likes you know, calling the hair salon and asking for Erykah Badu 39 showing up and having them say that 245 Sorry. So this saves you that trouble. And we think that we have something that simple, but that works everywhere. So scalable. And that’s, that’s the challenge with my newest startup. But I learned a lot of lessons on the road prior to this during my first startup, which eventually led me here.
Matthew Todd
Awesome. No, I think that’s is we really kind of interested to hear your right you know, your journey is not a common one. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs will benefit from hearing what you’ve got to say about your approach. But before we we get into the kind of the details of a bucket, the stage that you mentioned your previous venture and journey before be good to hear a bit more about your your background and what it is that led you to this point?
Daniel Shoar
Yeah, so I kind of dabbled in everything. I was a sports writer for paper in Dubai for five years, or for distributor as a corporate or for oil and gas company, Houston, eventually decided you know what my my destiny is to be an entrepreneur, I am not very good at listening to other people. So therefore, I decided to go found my first startup, which was called escape it started in 2014. We are the market leaders in 35 destinations, basically, Expedia for golf. But during that time, I spent 330 days a year, on average, on the road, but the best places in the world, so I can’t complain. But during that time, I did learn a lot about what it means to be an entrepreneur and what it means to scale. Yeah,
Matthew Todd
and what was some of those, those things that you saw kind of being on the road? So much?
Daniel Shoar
Yeah. So I think the first thing that entrepreneurs need to understand is that in order to sell to the end user, ultimately, which is your your customer who is selling to the end user, so you need to know what they want you to know what they both want, you have to understand them on a different kind of professional. It’s not just USA professional, it’s Thai professional, and Thai professional, is not the same as you as a professional.
And you have to actually live that, you know, over time. So you know, when I live the year of Bangkok, but I would get a car, get a condo and sat torn, live amongst the ties, so I can truly empathize with them and truly be able to identify their drivers and their motivators on an emotional plus cultural scale. That, you know, I was allowed to this, you know, this blessing that allowed me to find a commonality and when you find commonality, that’s when business can be done. And even if you have to go hire a tie or hire an Indonesian to hire Vietnamese because that’s the only way to be effective, then you do it, but at least you find the right people.
And that is, I think the other part of being an entrepreneur is that people will mistake a lot of people and I have my friend calls me the other day, same thing as he was retweeting like an Elon boss thing. And one of the quotes saying, is that technical? The technical aspects of a business should be run by technical people. Yes, yes, that’s absolutely true. But the CEO does not have to be that technical version.
That’s the CTOs job. The CEO job is two things. One, it’s being a salesman, first and foremost, because you’re always selling, either you’re selling your product, or you’re selling to the talent, or you’re selling to the investors, or you’re selling to the end user, it doesn’t matter if you’re selling, right, so you’re a salesman, and then the other half of your job is fundraising. And then finally, Tom, and he’s kind of split the two.
And hopefully, you can get your fundraisers over, you know, within six to nine months and be able to actually achieve milestones that that are meaningful. But regardless, it’s a race, you know, when you come up with an idea that’s new, that isn’t a copycat, it’s a race, the first always, so we have to be very, we are going to be very strategic in how we build out our software are. In fact, we’re very lucky that I’m not supposed to mention these people’s names, but let’s just say a large competitor of ours, have a seat back by the same font that we are backed by.
So please, gentlemen, and the mistakes they’ve made thus far I not to criticize, because they’ve done a great job, obviously, raising money, but they have made some mistakes that are fundamentally wrong, in my opinion. And for me, my job is to make something better. So as a disrupter, I, you know, see what their flaws are, and then addressing in a way that’s automated in the way that the robot says, so and it’s no mistakes, there’s no accountants telling me that, you know, the financial controller is not there. They’re not answering my emails, that no, it’s the computer, it’s a statement, a percent goes in one account. 20% goes the other account, pretty simple. If it gets positive, you know, via an API, and the robot does not make mistakes.
So this process, is it really be used, that they’re paying the monthly? Like, do you think that the service providers are happy with that they’re not. And on top of that, critically, the the fundamental mistake that they made, is that whenever a user goes to like the Instagram of, you know, a spa, or whatever, the suits or whatever, they are going to find a link fresher. But all it’s going to do is take them to a place where they can message the person. And then all of that transaction is done offline. Refreshing, gets nothing. So they go acquire the user, they spend money, but then none of the revenue goes to it doesn’t actually take them to a method of booking. So I mean, these are all just fun, like basic mistakes, you know, you would look at them, and you’d say, okay, wrong, you know, and if the people that are raising 200 million are doing this, I have a much better way is that it would be a shame for me lots of dry.
Matthew Todd
Yeah, I think that’s really interestingly, you mentioned a couple of things there. You obviously mentioned the revenue generation element of the business. But you also mentioned it’s important to, to win to be first or to be the biggest or have the most
Daniel Shoar
giving. It’s scale with an infrastructure that’s built to scale. So the bottom, the layer of it is something that is fundamentally useful in terms of the data, which is connected through various API’s, so that the computer does all the work. That’s the challenge here is that you need you got to have automation. And automation becomes complicated when you have too much data. So when you have to have data, then you have to aggregate the data properly. And then when you aggregate the data, you have a huge sample size, that it’s time to analyze the data and then it’s time to do what the data tells you to do. Right. And, you know, hopefully we have that problem soon, because that means we’ve had a lot of success. But the goal right now is is not to give the end user an easier way to book. The goal is to give the service provider usable operating system that is both automated and efficient. And it maximizes the revenue with the least amount of actual human input That’s fine. Let them use that. Yeah, let them gain revenue, let them gain users. And I will do my part on the other end of actually driving the truck.
Matthew Todd
Sure. So, you know, with the type of platform that you’ve got, obviously, you know, it’s essentially a two sided marketplace, you’ve got the service providers, you’ve got the consumers of the services,
Daniel Shoar
invisible bargain marketplace, I call it yeah, there’s money for
Matthew Todd
the invisible customer. Yeah. Yeah. And how do you, you get scale when you you’ve got to build up both, both sides doesn’t you can’t have customers, if there’s no one for them to go to. And likewise, the service providers, you know, there, they need to be onboarding people,
Daniel Shoar
we have to be very efficient in how we scale. And the means that we we use our our method is actually very quick. So going to a new market with the right amount of capital and understanding the market and speaking right languages, and having the right team behind you, using an inside out approach. I don’t think it’s too difficult given the method that we’re using, which, unfortunately, is our secret sauce that we can’t reveal just yet. Yeah,
Matthew Todd
I see. But scale is is what you’re building for from the outset.
Daniel Shoar
We’re building something on the SaaS on the back end basis, whether it’s our database, or the the, the actual operators, operating system, which we have no control over whatsoever. Either. That whole entire base level is built on an automated scan for every for everything, whether it’s geolocation, where are they? Where are they booking? How many times they be okay, Are they members? Do they vibe or motion, everything’s being tracked, all that data is being recorded, both within the CRM of the service provider, but also our database so that we can effectively drive traffic and new users to these various service providers? Because ultimately, who’s going to turn out a new user? Right, that’s more money.
Matthew Todd
You’re giving those
Daniel Shoar
economy? Yeah, it’s more about just generating more generating more activity, right? Finding services that you didn’t know you want it. That’s what we aim to get.
Matthew Todd
I see. So discovery as a kind of awareness building, as well as directing, they came for
Daniel Shoar
exactly that. And also just the ease of booking, right? If you’re used to booking online, they use the right clicks, that’s no good. If you used to call him on the phone, well, hang up the phone, you pick up the app, and do the two click process. And you’re done. And you don’t have to wait. Yeah, so this is what we’re offering. And we’re offering this you know, quite possibly the easiest way with the right partners and might add, we have deals with Priceline booking.com. Forbes virgin Asik venture incubator review, 365 is a partner of ours, a number of AWS stripe, a number of different partners that are helping us as we scale, because they believe efficient, and as a result, less capital is needed, which is obviously good for us.
Matthew Todd
Yeah, so those partnerships are pretty, pretty important than to helping you on that on that scaling approach.
Daniel Shoar
Yeah, so in general, I generally like to establish trust between partners that I work with and I don’t see a reason why that we should reinvent the wheel we should just find the wheel that is usable a go and pay have to pay for it basically, and go partner with them and say, Okay, listen, we’re gonna white label what you built. You built it pretty much what we wanted to build, you get half of what we get. Let’s put push it out first. Because it’s, there’s three ways to win. It’s the first these foreigners these foreigners are cheap. Now cheap. Yeah. So and it’s an although I like to think that I’m smart. I’m actually kind of stupid. So I got I gotta be first. At the first is just Airbnb was overlooked. This is overlooked. Well, I had my output and that is the only thing that I have going for me. But that is a huge advantage in the startup world because agility is where you benefit the most the guys that have raised 200 are the guys that are troubled because they’re gonna have to bug fix everything. And there’s no easy fix for that they’re gonna end up having to either dump their system, or we’ve revamped the framework. I mean, If they built in five years ago, they’re in a lot of trouble. Let’s put it that way. We don’t have that. For us building like, you know, from the ground up with already having done it before my IP is in my head, it’s quite a bit faster a the lead times is a lot bigger. And on top of that we know exactly what the customer wants. And so when we get there when we want to before they ask for it, that’s when they start to use it.
Matthew Todd
Yeah. So it sounds like you’re kind of previous experience and then leading into this, as well. Really the the most important thing that most founders overlook is, is knowing those customers knowing that audience had a pretty deep level would you say?
Daniel Shoar
Well, I’d say I’d say the big one of the biggest mistakes founders make, especially as they try to scale is not listening to the customer.
What you need to do is go in aggregate the data go to in my case, it was golf courses, so it was the fish. But in Spain, they had the coastal golf, which was about 85 golf courses, I would go and visit all 85.
And I’d say what would you like, I would do the same thing in Bangkok and visit on other golf courses, I will go to coffee, I will go to chiming, I will go to Vietnam, Danang, I will go to Indonesia, Bali, we know there, wherever Napoli and Bali, and Jakarta in bulk, or all these places that this adventure took me on Cape Town where there’s 500 horses in South Africa.
I didn’t know anything about golf, I’m not a golf guy. I honestly, if you if I had to choose between golfing and pinky, like a fool for them go, I’d say goodbye to the pinky. Because that four day would be pretty, pretty boring. So I’m not a golf guy. But I what I am, is, is an opportunist.
And also I saw that there was a gap in the market, nobody’s doing this, okay, let’s give it a shot. But frankly, it’s just something that brought the passion out of me, and it’s not big enough, I want to go for first prize not, you know, whatever, you know, the consolation prize, you gave it a shot. Now, let’s go for all of it, it’s, it’s a lot more fun to have that mentality. Because when you do have that mentality, it’s you have to stay running. Because if you’re not running, then it’s almost catching up.
They don’t need to look back, he looked forward, and he need to look where you are on the ground right now. But you need to focus on your own business, do what you believe in and move quick. Because that’s what all of us just want to see. They just want to see that it can be replicated. Once that’s been proven, then efficiencies of scale will come into play. And you can start to become profitable.
It’s more about proving that you have this proof of concept in you know, multi currency, multi multi language, multi versions of technology be used? Well, yeah, everything. The good news is, again, my first one is on five continents. So I’ve made all the mistakes. And what took me a long time to learn as a eight year guy 33 or 30 days, within a suitcase. It was mistakes are just as valuable as successes. Because when you make a mistake, you just don’t make it again, right? If you make it twice, you know, fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you, but or vice versa.
But the bottom line is you shouldn’t be you know, making mistakes, you fail forward, it’s better to learn, it’s often more effective, and more impactful to make a mistake, feel the pain and just never do it again. Whereas, you know, not make the mistake not do it exactly right. And then just that have it be a problem moving forward. It’s very important to embrace mistakes, it’s very important to fail forward.
It’s very important that to change your mindset, because there are going to be dark days, the startup world is just a roller coaster ride. And you got to make your peace with that. Because if you don’t, it’s not for you. And especially after eight years, you’d be caught up to it.
But the bottom line is, that’s what every great person who went into something big like this, they pay their dues. Jeff Bezos went at it for 20 years lost money. Finally hit, you know, was was weeks away from losing from Tesla being out of cash. That’s why He’s the richest person in the world. I mean, things change, right? You get lucky things change. And like I said, I previously I’ve always been lucky.
Matthew Todd
Yeah, but I think that, you know, comes down to the effort that you put in and I think those two things are related because I see a lot of you know, to stage founders, especially first time founders that they won’t do that deep level, you know, to understand their customer. And I think part of it is fear based. They don’t want anyone to tell them the vision for their idea is is wrong.
Daniel Shoar
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it’s a, that’s a mistake going here and go, it’s better to go here. You’re wrong. Actually, it’s the opposite. Going here, you’re wrong from everybody. And then you’ll know, you’re totally wrong.
Matthew Todd
So would you seek out people to talk to that you think may or may not actually agree, I go, I
Daniel Shoar
go deep. So I go through a deep dive on every operating like SAS, SOPs that they put in place in all the various markets. And then I hire people that were local to those markets, that I incentivize by using equity as like I would pay them more than they were making. They were vested over two years. So I bested on for years, but to your clips, so they were loyal to the company. And I had to know that for a year, they had to work for me for free for a year. And I hired 10 people this way. And they all did the same thing. They believed in our mission. And once that happens, then I can trust them, and leave them nine hours outside of, you know, the actually being able to have them and still be confident that they’re doing their job. And that’s the reason why we’re the market leader and 35 destinations. So it wasn’t by accident. It was eight years of work. And it was a years of hiring the right people the right talent at the right time. And most of that was poaching the best talent from your best clients. Because it tends to be the ones who use your start your technology perform better. So obviously, they’re the ones you’re gonna poach. And when you do push those people, you still have a great relationship with the golf club, because as long as you maintain the revenue growth, they don’t care either.
Matthew Todd
Yeah, it’s been kind of pretty foundational them to say to find those right hires to get those people to buy in
Daniel Shoar
a bucket frankly, yeah. Hearing that from the golf instructors from five continents, why can I not sell my service of golf of teaching golf? on your site? Why can I have my own white label website with a widget? And why can I have an app? And why can I not be able to have a SAS to organize my own schedule? I said to myself, if five continents worth of golf instructor just saying that, then let’s look at the big picture here. Uber, right when it started, it was just a ride hailing service. Now look what it is, without UberEATS, they would be dead, they have a million different things on Uber. And it’s because of necessity, because that’s what people want. It’s time to like get with the times, right? People want the all in one apps. Nobody wants to go to a niche website for each little service. Yeah, they want to bundle it and they want to save more money, and they want to eventually get deals with, you know, and be loyal similar to they are with OTAs. That hasn’t happened yet. And I am the first one that spotted it. And let’s hope that, you know, people that are chasing me aren’t as good, because let’s just say it was let’s put it this way. I’ve had an inside peek. I’m not gonna say who or when or why. But let’s just say I’ve seen my competition and offer the challenge.
Matthew Todd
Awesome. That sounds great. So I guess with that in mind, and with your competition in mind, you know, what are your? What are your kind of launch plans? How are you planning on on getting ahead of them? And how big do you want it to be
Daniel Shoar
pretty good, all the fiction that the customers are facing, and immediately address those problems with your new technology. So better experience, every single problem they have, you aggregate it, and you build it so that it’s configurable within their system, so that it addresses everything that they need before they even ask for it. Yeah.
Matthew Todd
And so your vision for Bukit if you’ve talked about wanting it to be number one, how big do you want this business to be? What what is your ambition?
Daniel Shoar
All have it? I want the big prize? First place, whatever that is. It’s an IPO. It’s an IPO. Exactly. It’s not an acquisition. It’s an idea.
Matthew Todd
Yeah.
Daniel Shoar
Let’s, let’s see, let’s see if we get there. I mean, you gotta dream big, right?
Matthew Todd
Yeah. And do you have you know timeframes in mind? Or are you just kind of head down focused on on launching big staying ahead?
Daniel Shoar
Yeah, we’ve had a couple of setbacks and this is something that every well first time caller especially but, you know, any founder and entrepreneur is gonna face is that thing, you know, you’re gonna hit get hit with some curveballs that you weren’t expecting. In my case, my co founder who I found through my harbor network, I actually ended up in Kyiv, in January, so out of commission, it’s obviously very difficult to operate without a co founder, especially given the amount of work I delegated.
And then on top of that, they decided to throw me another wrench when my CTO who’s Ethiopian in Addis Ababa, the other only other conflict zone of the world right now, he gets hit with bombs on the road and no internet. So. So that’s the one two punch, but hey, you gotta roll with the punches, right?
That’s what the CEO is supposed to do is make sure that whatever happens, the company survives. And when you have the right, people surrounding you, in terms of board members, advisors, investors, friends that want to see you succeed, partners, you know, everyone that’s involved, they will give you the push that you need, when you need it, because it’s in their best interest, right?
Whenever someone puts advisor and board member on golf scape on their LinkedIn, and they’re put off for a talk to law firm in the United States.
They want that to read something they don’t want it to be, it went to zero. So it’s important to have people like that in a quarter, because obviously, at some point, attacks 20 would be a pretty good idea if we do it.
Matthew Todd
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that comes back to what you were talking about earlier, which is, you know, aligning interests with people that you work with finding people that are buying into that and where you’re just not, you know, another person that they’re talking to that they might hope to bring them business or whatever it may be.
Daniel Shoar
Yeah, the best way that I can describe why we’re innovating, is just add up the number of differentiators, when you start adding up and the number becomes 10 or 15, guess what, you started innovating. Now you started something new, that nobody’s really thought of, because you’ve thought of 1015 different things that they were doing wrong, or we’re doing it all. Once you do that, it’s called innovation, when you put all that together and give it to the service provider, and you actually allow the network effect to take place.
And you know, the spillover effect that you have a barbers telling other barbers this will all happen as long as we’re, we take the next door approach, which is just find the neighborhoods that are converting at a higher rate than the average and go and focus all of our efforts on those and then get the boroughs nearby the surrounding boroughs.
So that, you know people talk about it, and we get we see more and more repeat visitors higher retention rate, which ultimately leads to a higher LTV lifetime value the customer that adds more value to the service that we’re providing to the actual service, the haircut or whoever it is, that’s getting the that’s actually completing the service. Right. So we’re doing a favor on both ends, we’re taking the hit on the you know, by doing all the tech for them and and paying for the marketing, but at the same time. Now we have a new customer with the software.
Matthew Todd
Yeah, absolutely. That makes it makes a lot of sense. And I think it that kind of point on differentiation is, is key. I think not enough, you know, startups scaleups actually seek to have that point of differentiation, especially when they have competitors. They’re almost too busy comparing themselves to competitors that they think,
Daniel Shoar
yeah, you see clients, like if you go to Dubai, you’re gonna get Kareem, which is a clone of Uber, you got to you got to clone Amazon, they just their goal is to get acquired for one meal or one to one bill or whatever. And that’s it. That’s not my goal, right. I was based in Dubai, we started something new, but it was doing like you’re really that industry. And I wanted something bigger. And this is somebody that I just listened to my customers. I said, You know what, if they’re all saying that they must be honest, the demand is there.
Matthew Todd
Awesome. No, I think that’s fantastic. And, and obviously wish you the best in in launching and getting that that scale that you’re you’re looking for. Is there any other kind of advice that you give to people in your position, whether it’s their first startup or second startup or even on that scaling journey? Sure. Are there any other things that you’ve learned sooner mistakes you’ve made that you you kind of like to get across?
Daniel Shoar
What I would do and this is somebody that I embrace wholeheartedly, so your address as far as your total strategic understanding, I only speak Spanish in Spain. I forced myself so that they correct me and I eventually get right. So I embrace all my trips, 16 trips, I’ll get a car and an apartment and sad torn, as live like a tie for eight weeks that will allow me that empathy, compassion, like compatibility, being able to talk properly identify with them on a both emotional, cultural and professional level that will ultimately induce behavior that isn’t my favorite.
And I learned that across the world, because I embraced it across the world. I embraced living like a local, drove everywhere I went, no matter where I drove from sevi from Lisbon to Marbella about 30 times, I drove to Cape Town to Port Elizabeth, maybe 40 times, that’s a tar drive off the coast, to tip Africa.
And it’s the most one of those beautiful drugs in the world. But it’s also one of those dangers drives, see your life, but it’s still worth it. And these are things that you just can’t teach, I can tell you about it. But it’s not anything until you see it until you live it. And then once you live in it off, it just becomes like, second nature. And once you have that feeling, you’re able to identify with these other South Africans. And that’s just what, what it took.
It took me years worth of going and really, really trying to integrate myself as society. Because everything is I’m not going to say correlate everything is interrelated, right? No matter what company or business or industry are in, whatever their operating procedure is, could impact what you might want to do with your company.
It’s important to understand that from all from all scales, right? We’re not talking about just one industry, one niche product in one small neighborhood. No, we’re talking about this worldwide, they were trying to identify, like the mistakes and build something so that those mistakes can ever occur because the robot is doing it all for us. And that’s the most important thing about why I decided on this strategy of partnering up with both a FinTech and another kind of HubSpot CRM type three, because it, why am I going to go waste another six months trying to help somebody that’s not my core competency.
Anyway, let me do what was my core competency what I’ve already done before, that’s gonna take me the least amount of time, you just integrate well, white label, and then we’ll do a rev share.
And it’s fair for everybody. And we were all aligned, all of our interests are aligned. Everyone has to sell the same product to make money. So now, we have three companies wind, so it’s the same product. Guess what? That’s three times the number of potential customers.
Matthew Todd
Yeah. No, I think that’s, that’s great. And I think the the point you say about the things that you can’t teach that you have to experience, and you have to understand how your, the businesses you’re selling to work, you’ve, you have to kind of it’s not all about you and your company, it’s not even just about your customers, it’s also about their businesses. Anyone
Daniel Shoar
living Yeah, live it to live it to the max, because you only get one shot at this thing I’ve ever seen everyone come back from the dead. You know, I don’t expect that to happen in my lifetime here. So, you know, try people. Look, people are people. If you set set your mind on something, and you just try really hard, you realize life really isn’t as hard as it seems. People always worry too much. About the worst days have a I’m sure they do have them but they also underestimate their ability to recover when those these do happen.
Matthew Todd
Absolutely. And I think people also over estimates, how much people other people are thinking about them when actually they’re thinking about themselves more. And that fear I think holds people back from immersing themselves as you say.
Daniel Shoar
Exactly, yeah. And and it’s just fear of change, and nobody likes change. Nobody likes to be uncomfortable. And Saudi Gah, you know, the deal with the Thai stuff like that you’re gonna have to deal with deal with all the men in Bali. It’s a whole different world. But anyway, I mean, basically every single one of these little idiosyncrasies like in South Africa, they’ll call streets, lights, robots, and then they’ll just tell you, the robots take a lap and you’re just like, What the hell’s he talking about robots?
And you’ll see like a tribe advisor, oh, robots. You know, these are just things that again, how are you supposed to teach this? You live it? I can’t. I can’t possibly spray my entire life, you know, living in Cape Town over over the course of a year, maybe 12 to 13 trips, traveling. I mean, I’ve been everywhere, right?
I’ve been lucky. I went to high school in Dubai and visual. One of those expat brides that had his prom The first year was a lot of open. And I got lucky. And that’s a blessing that, you know, in spite of how stupid I am, it allows me to have a different perspective on the world, which is something unique that people just don’t get this opportunity. And it’s a shame for me to is it?
Matthew Todd
Absolutely. And I think that’s a great place to. To wrap things up for today. I no doubt we’ll have other conversations in the future. And I look forward to getting you on and hearing how that growth journey is going. But I think it’s gonna be really great to talk to you. I think there’s a lot entrepreneurs should take from this on understanding people understanding their customers customer base, at a human level, going deep and not being afraid of failure.
Daniel Shoar
And if they want to check out I have a call on Forbes and I write weekly calls on Forbes, constantly, maybe Lincoln biotech thing.
Matthew Todd
Yeah, we can drop links to anywhere that’s relevant where people can find you.
Daniel Shoar
Yeah, so he will might might get a little bit better understanding of my story just and how it’s evolved over time because your perspective certainly does change when you see certain things. I’ll say that or when you lose certain things, rather.
Matthew Todd
Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Well, I wish you the best of luck with booking and thank you again for for taking the time this morning. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you for joining me on this episode of Inside the scaler. Remember for the show notes and in depth resources from today’s guest. You can find these on the website inside the scale app.com. You can also leave feedback on today’s episode, as well as suggest guests and companies you’d like to hear from. Thank you for listening