On this episode with Jeremy Redman, founder of TaskMagic we talk about what the journey from nothing to success looks like, the importance of belief and conviction as well as go deep on the topic of MVPs and why what you think of as your MVP probably isn’t viable (yet).
Episode Links
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Episode Transcript
Matthew Todd
My name is Matthew Todd and welcome to Inside the ScaleUp. This is the podcast for founders and executives in tech, looking to make an impact and learn from their peers in the tech business. We lift the lid on tech businesses, interviewing leaders and following their journey from startup to scale up and beyond covering everything from developing product market fit, funding and fundraising models to value proposition structure and growth marketing. We learn from their journey so that you can understand how they really work, the failures, the successes, the lessons along the way, so that you can take their learnings and apply them within your own startup or scale up and join the ever growing list of high growth UK SaaS businesses. Hey, welcome back to the podcast, really excited to date joined by Jeremy Redman from TaskMagic. Good to have you here.
Jeremy Redman
Great to be here. Isn’t this amazing that we can do this with this software?
Matthew Todd
Yeah, absolutely. It’s really good. Yeah, we got a big distance between us and timezone difference as well. Yet, we’re still able to have this conversation today.
Jeremy Redman
How cool is that? From across the pond?
Matthew Todd
Yeah, we do we take it for granted now, but it’s impressive.
Jeremy Redman
We do. So that’s a long way of saying, I am so happy to be here.
Matthew Todd
Yeah. Likewise, and I’m really looking forward to the conversation. To kick things off, do you wanna give people a little bit of background? You know, who are you what, what is TaskMagic?
Jeremy Redman
Grew up in trailer park, poor broke. Became an entrepreneur out of necessity. When I was like 10 / 11 years old, I started a sales club that was called like Olympia sales club. I got to $3 for every item that I sold out of this magazine. When it got too much for just me to handle, I hired my stepbrother and a neighbor kid, and I gave them $1 for every item that they sold, $99. So you’re not thinking like, how someone like intuitively scaling a sales org. Right? Like at 11. I didn’t know what the word product market fit or scale was until I was like 26 or 27. I didn’t know what these terms meant. I became this out of necessity, because I grew up with nothing. We couldn’t afford a trip to Disney World. You know, like, this was something that was like that I want to do that was a driver for me. Fast forward a little bit. I felt so disconnected with technology because again, like I graduated high school in like 2006. So internet was a plenty all over the place. We didn’t have it until I was like a senior in high school. I remember having to go over to like, friends homes to illegally download music off of Limewire remember that?
I always felt this disconnection with technology. So I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, I knew I could sell, I just didn’t have that tech background. So I had to learn that piece. I went off to uni, at Michigan State and even then I had to start from the bottom, which was like a community college. It took me six years to get a four year degree. I wasn’t really motivated by it. I wanted to be an entrepreneur. But growing up with nothing, you kind of think like, what are what are the stable things you kind of do? It’s this weird dichotomy, where you’re like, Alright, I gotta get like this piece of paper. I know, it will help me. I know, it was something that always drove me. So first person in my entire family to go to college. Then I kind of like chased a paycheck. Working at the top places to launch your career. I didn’t really have the idea of for like my tech entrepreneur background.
Matthew Todd
Yeah, I think it’s important to not rush that as well. Right?
Jeremy Redman
You can learn from just as much from a good experience as you can from bad experience.
Jeremy Redman
Right. So, often people rush it and are like, I just want to be an entrepreneur. It’s like, no, dude, there’s so much experience to be gained. There’s no bad experience ever bad. You can learn from just as much from a good experience as you can from bad experience, right? So on and so forth and everything in between. I worked for like a top public accounting firm, like, one of the big four accounting firms, which is based in London, I think. I worked for this company, I essentially got fired and eight months, like, this was not working out. So and I was like, I don’t know if I can do this form of business much. I was 23 or 24 at the time and then I started working for like the movie studios in Los Angeles, in some consulting capacity, and that was really fun for a little while. Then I ended up getting fired from that job.
Then this pattern started to emerge. Where, why are you so horrible working for other people? So now you’re 26 ish and you haven’t worked for a startup? You haven’t done these things? You haven’t had this idea? Maybe it’s time to force the issue a little bit. So I was like, I don’t have the idea still. Alright, so I’m not going to run with some just any dumb idea. So I worked for my first venture backed company in Santa Monica. They had raised like, a million dollars in venture capital. This was back in 2013 or 2014. So like, where a million dollar raise was like, really good. Not these 100 million dollar seed rounds that people are doing now.
So yeah, I worked for my first venture backed company. I was 25 or 26, and I was the ops manager. and I was learning tech. I’ll never forget this feeling. The first week there. I organized the pay structure for 3000 contractors across the country. It was approved by the founders, and I was employee like five or six or something. They were like, amazing. It was the first week that I was there and I presented this thing. They approved it and then it affected 3000 people across the country and you’re like, what, is this real? Because I just came from a consulting firm, that like, you had to do your line item on something and just stick to that unique tags. No wonder why I was getting fired. This is a drug. I was making a third of the money working for this startup that I worked for the consultant firm. Yeah, so like, for me, that was always the thing. Fast forward, like six months, that company went out of business. I was like, alright, but coming from that business, I learned that I had the idea now and it was like, a digital business card exchange. Keep in mind that this was 2015 ish now. So like, it wasn’t so prevalent, like these types of things. I was able to start that company, and not being an engineer myself,I didn’t know how to code. I didn’t really know how to design. I didn’t really have the money to like afford any anybody or any any engineers. I played every game, you could. Go to co founder dating and find a technical co founder. What a waste of time. Like, I found these these early stage like no code tools like just like WordPress, yeah, right. And all these plugins and Zapier was around to connect some things then in 2015. But it was very early.
So like I started gluing all these things together Typeform, WordPress, and it was a WordPress website and 84 plugins. I was able to cobble these things together and pivot that company into like 14 different things and monetized at least five figures at a stage. So it was like a few 100 grand i was able to get. Then that allowed me to hire my first engineer. I went to like design school and started working for like companies in UX and UI design, and then kind of bringing all those skills together. What came about from that was a no code App Builder. This is what I was meant to do. Going back to that 11 year old kid who didn’t have access to technology, and who just cobbled togther, some WordPress website and 84 plugins, like this no code movement that early no code movement was, this is so empowering. I want to share this with other people. I want to show other people like how empowering this is. Anyone, doesn’t matter what you come from what you look like, can have access to these tools.
You can be a tech entrepreneur, I am, and I’m human garbage. It’s funny that so many people make excuses. When I turned 30 years old, I was making $15 an hour. Garbage. So many people want to make 15 grand a month by 30 likes 15 grand a month by 23. I didn’t have any of my shit figured out. None of it. You know, so like, the through line is of my life has always been like it’s always taking longer than I want. Now I have a Tesla paid for in cash. So stay patient.
Matthew Todd
It takes time to build the skills, but it takes time to get the experience. It takes time to find what works. Find out what doesn’t work. They’re all stepping stones on the way.
Jeremy Redman
For me, it’s been about like always taking something from some experience. As long as you’re not sitting on the goddamn couch, or sitting in a chair, like, do something, learn a tool, go to Notion. Go to whatever tool and learn a tool, go learn how to be a project manager, you can become a product manager in a weekend. There’s no excuse today.
Matthew Todd
It doesn’t have to be the end goal. You don’t have to know what that is. But just keep heading in the right direction.
Jeremy Redman
I don’t even know if it’s heading in the right direction. There’s a wrong direction, right? Like constant state of movement. Right? Like just move, go. Then you’ll quickly figure out you don’t want to go down that way. So then you go, hey, just go the other way. So it’s not even about making the right choice or just staying. It’s going. Cool. Just don’t stop moving. You know, actual motion. Yeah, we’re going in any direction. Because you’ll figure out this direction sucks. And you know, 100% certain? You don’t want to go that way.
Matthew Todd
That’s really, really good advice. You remind me of the careers advisor at school, right, which basically gave you the question of what do you want to be? Which is you only get one choice as to what kind of career you have? That also defines you at the same time?
Jeremy Redman
I would like if they asked, what do you not want to be? Because so many people sit there with question marks, and you have 80 things, 80 vocations that you can make, right? From a plumber to an accountant, to an electrician, whatever, whatever it is to a banker, I don’t know. And as people retire, you can suck up that space. There’s so many things that you can be. Do you want to be a plumber? No. All right, cool. So that’s one less thing you have to like, use your bandwidth. So you know, you don’t want to be a plumber. Do you want to be an accountant? No. All right, great. We know you don’t want to be this and this cool. So focus on these 187 things and you know, start dwindling, but don’t sit there confused. Don’t sit there going, oh, you’re looking at 189 choices. You can you can immediately go through that list and check off 120 that you don’t want to do. Now you’re making that perpetual motion piece. People don’t think that like saying no to an opportunity is doing anything, when it really is clearing the path to the thing that you do want to do.
Matthew Todd
I think that’s, that’s really good way to do it. You don’t have to know what you want to do. But if you know what you don’t want to do, then start experimenting from there.
Jeremy Redman
It’s just rapid experimentation. So many people just rush into life. Right? Where it’s like, oh, by 30 I need a kid and I need a whatever. My wife now is in her early 30s, 31 ish. She wants a child. I’m a couple years older. So okay, maybe it’s time, we got to do this. So I was like, I get it. Let’s try this. But like, I didn’t do that at 26 or 27, or 28 orr 29. You can’t just do everything because people around you are doing it a certain way. This is the hard part which is, the people you surround yourself with, if they’re just average, average isn’t a bad thing. If you look at it, huge collection of people around you at, you know, at college and everywhere. You’re thinking, I’m on the outside and this feels weird, because you’re the weird one. Because you didn’t get the job that everyone else did right outside of college. You worked at this startup no one gave a shit about. I was that person. I’m telling you, I map that all the kids I went to college with are doing nothing. I’m I’m jealous. But, you don’t know that going through it. You think like, oh, this person’s running this organization. I want to do that.
Project that out 10 years now when that person’s the average and you need to know that your path is different than everyone’s, it’s okay to respect that average path, the below average path, whatever it is. So many people shit on careers or career paths. It’s like, no, that’s your career path. Own it. Do you want to do that? Or did you get stuck in doing that? If you wanted to do it, and that makes you happy? Absolutely. Do that thing. Because that’s all that matters. So you never know, like, you just need to have more of the macro view or a big picture view of things that you’re doing and like the career that you’re going on. Don’t worry about having it figured out. Just don’t sit there. Do thing. Always be learning something about what you you do and don’t want to do? Do and don’t want to do! it’s so important You figure out what you don’t want to do. That’s just as valuable.
Matthew Todd
Onto TaskMagic. What is what is TaskMagic? How did that come about?
Jeremy Redman
TaskMagic is an automation software that essentially helps people automate manual repetitive tasks. That’s, the tagline. But how it’s done is really, really, really, really cool. So you know, there’s other automation software out there and you have to learn triggers and actions and API connections. Not that any of that’s hard. That’s how I got started. It’s good to know these things. I was originally consulting and we have our own Zapier app, so we know the challenge of submitting something to that. I’ve used all these other automation software’s, and Make, formerly known as Integromat was so complicated. Then I was like, but I’ll do it, I got it. Then I learned that, other people knew the value of software automation, like other small business owners and individual entrepreneurs knew it. But either, didn’t have the time to do it, or learn it because they’re running their business. They know the value of it, but they don’t know what they can automate exactly, or how to do it.
So I was just originally consulting on this and I noticed people like real non technical people would give up and we built like a form to make it really easy just to ingest what they wanted to do. So we had these consulting sessions, where we would go cool, what do you want to automate? What we learned was like, they were making like a loom video or a screen recording or screen capture of the thing that they were doing. When it got too much to do these by the hundreds, these videos that I was watching this video on making the automation. Then I was thinking cool, wouldn’t it be cool if, like, they made that video, and that was doing the automation? They can make the video and it’s actually doing the thing.
So Kyle, my CTO was like, alright, we could try to do that. So for the last like nine months of our lives, we’ve been building this thing that they people can click a record button, do the do the manual automation, one time, hit stop, and then schedule that thing to run. They can enter delays or filters and do certain things in between the steps. But once they hit record, do that manual thing one time. Then once they’re done, hit stop, and then it lists all those steps, all the actions, the triggers, let’s say Zapier or whatever, and it just lists every step and they can edit it when things change, or in 90 seconds, they can rerecord that thing. Instead of when Zapier errors, or these other software’s error, it’s like you need to be an engineer.
Matthew Todd
I’ve got like some broken zaps at the moment. My background is in software development and I can’t be bothered to fix it.
Jeremy Redman
This is the funny thing is, the disconnection between the app developers for Zapier and Zapier because I’ve commented on Zapier support, and it’s like, well, this is their app, so you got to talk with them. So you waste a day or two talking with Zapier support, or you’re on a $500 month plan, because you want the premium support. Now you’re talking Zapier with a couple days, and then the other support team from the esoteric form builder. So now, i’m, three, four days in, all the automations are held. When really, if something changed, or something errored, I could have just re recorded it in 90 seconds, and would have all been there.
Matthew Todd
That’s a good insight that actually, all of those tools make it easy when it works when it doesn’t work and when you want to get it right for the first time. It’s quicker just to do it again. It’s good. Your right. It’s at that level. When you’re trying to set this stuff up. I know what it is to do that task and you know, all these systemization guys, telling you to stick it in a Google Doc or record a little video, whatever it is. As soon as you want to automate it, you’ve got to then, like go down a level to attempt to connect this stuff up together. Well, what you really want to do is just say, I’ll show you how it’s done. That’s what I want to happen.
Jeremy Redman
See, we wouldn’t have known right? The great thing about this is that we’re on a different level. So, Zapier, Make, Integromat, automate.io, they all do it the same way. But they’re going to plateau. Meaning, they’re a six or $7 billion company, which is amazing and insane, right? But what happens is, is they’ve now created a behavior, a learned behavior over the last decade or more, where their current customers, the thing that’s gotten them to $7 billion. But if that’s the thing that got them there, they’re not going to just switch it up and change that learn behavior. It’s ingrained. So it makes it interesting that Zapier either comes and goes, I’ll give you 60 million for that thing, that record the screen, or we start carving out our niche because they’re not going to, they’re not going to do it.
Matthew Todd
Because it would completely changed their positioning that message, everything. That’s how you create a differentiated product is not by doing the same thing that they do but a little bit better. It’s a completely different perspective, although there’s lots of commonality underneath it, right?
Jeremy Redman
I’m going to send this to every investor out there, going, just listen to this before you talk to me. Just listen to this. And this takeaway. That’s great, great insight. 100%. Because you’re right. I mean, it was not something forced, it was something learned. It was a it’s something that we’ve learned with dealing with customers one by one, right. I think we mentioned this before we got on, but it’s like, or maybe it was at the beginning. Where it’s like you’re manually doing things with people, right? You’re manually onboarding, you’re really learning the customer or learning where the problem fits within the market. So many people don’t do that. They go, that’s not scalable. Yeah, I understand that right now. It shouldn’t be scalable, yet, you’re working on a problem. You’re not solving anyone’s problem. You have a million people who like your stuff, you don’t love it, I’d rather have 110 people that absolutely love it. Because that’s at least a place where you can grow solidly versus a million people who downloaded it, and then don’t like it and don’t use it every day.
Matthew Todd
Exactly. It’s that difference between the nice to have and the must have product, isn’t it? It’s nice to have that it’s kind of disposable the same time, but for the people that love it, it’s a must to have it’s essential part of their how they work.
Jeremy Redman
That’s another thing. I thought this was so dumb one time when I heard from an investor, oh, we’d like to invest in enterprise solutions that they can’t live without. You’re like, yeah, yeah, me too. I would love to have that. Good luck figuring that out. I mean, it’s been a long journey. It’s now been two, three years since the time I heard that. And I now start to think that we have that thing. So it’s just like constantly serving the customer and learning with your first few learning with your first say, 100 paying customers and getting them to the product that the product stage where they love it. They can’t live without it. How can I weasel my way in to where I’m learning what they’re doing and you cognitively make your product integral to what they’re doing. Like it’s helping them. But you also know they’re not going to cancel your subscription price, regardless of whatever it is, if you opt it from 20 bucks to 400 bucks. They need it. So that’s what you were you want to get as a founder and a product person?
Matthew Todd
I see too many startups that do a bit of that market research, talk to a few people get some nice feedback, and design a solution and then tie themselves to the solution more than to their customers to their audience and to their problems. Then, like they’re trying to find to an audience then for their product that they’ve built versus sticking with the audience they’ve got and trying to make the best thing for them.
Jeremy Redman
We were using an intake form in Zapier and learning what businesses did. At the beginning, Matthew, I was knocking on doors. I built three, six figure companies in one seven figure tech company from nothing, using no code tools, and everything was glued together with like, automation tools. So I was like, okay, I could do anything, or a version of anything. So I took that expertise, the product and the automation stuff and I thought, I can help any business, they just don’t know. So I’m going to help, right. So I’m essentially going to give my consulting for free, they just sign up for our platform, 200 bucks a month, or whatever the price was, I was trying to make some price that was not losing so much money, or it was worth the white glove service we were giving. Just learning about what their businesses do.
I learned that some things can be automated, some things can’t be automated. How do we build around this? Where other people go, you want to know what I think would be cool. This product and they spend six months building a product. There’s no audience for it, and you’re struggling versus going to a set of customers, you give a shit about and thinking what are your problems? Their guards will be down? What are your problems? Let me see if I can help. I know I can do this. Let me see if I can help you. I lost so much time, money and so many people will go hmm, that wasn’t worth your time. Oh, wasn’t it? Because I’m staring at seven figures ARR and you’re sitting there on your ass. It took me longer. People don’t want to do those initial 100 steps. Step 103 is a million dollars in ARR. You know, you just don’t want to do the first 101.
Matthew Todd
What you were saying about doing the things that aren’t scalable. I think a lot of people oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, we, we do that. But actually, they’re they’re not doing that in any way, shape, or form because they’re still too scared to talk to engage with their audience and go that extra mile.
Jeremy Redman
Get out of this business if you don’t want to run a half a marathon with your first customers for nothing.
Jeremy Redman
In this messaging that I put out to both our customers or prospective customers or just people I’m trying to help, other entrepreneurs. Get out of this business if you don’t want to run a half a marathon with your first customers for nothing. I’ve been broke, literally poor for the last seven years before and it wasn’t until this year where I can buy a Tesla or something. So, I sacrificed all of this. For seven years, like 30 years old, 15.50 an hour working for a cinematographer running the operations of his business and then I was six figures in debt. Skip to 34 years old, no debt, making more than $50 an hour. Net worth of eight and a half million dollars and Tesla paid in cash because I took the last four years and knocked on doors.
These get rich quick scheme and like the Amazon FBA stuff that goes on and NFT’s, everyone is looking for the quick thing, the four month thing, not the four years knocking on doors. I was knocking on doors, the tried and true way to get a Tesla is to knock on doors and learn about problems every day for four years, I guarantee everyone can do that. I guarantee it. If you give me five years of your time, and you want to knock on prospective customers doors and learn and just hear all their problems, every day, knock on doors physically. I mean actually walk to their businesses and knock on their doors and make a relationship because those decision makers will be right there. If you want to do that for five years. I guarantee you have a Tesla,
Matthew Todd
It would be quite hard to fail if you did that and didn’t learn something and didn’t manage to solve a lot of problems on the way.
Jeremy Redman
Exactly, that’s the point. This is a marathon when you’re crawling over broken glass. Go talk to small business owners and just ask about their problems. Don’t go on Twitter, and ask Twitter what their problems are? Those people are the worst. I used to try to sell people on Twitter like no code people on Twitter. I want this red alerted on here, that they are the cheapest people ever. They say they want something but they don’t. They won’t pay for it, what it’s worth and they just complain. So for other entrepreneurs trying to chase stuff, chase real people in person, figure out the problem, then build the software to scale it. The guaranteed way to do it is talk with real people.
Matthew Todd
I think as well as speaking to that low price point thing and people, not valuing that as well, I think if you’re not having those real conversations, then people won’t value and won’t appreciate the problem, the value of the problem the value of having a solved. A lot of founders, I see when they start to test out different price points and if they’re not getting the traction they’re looking for, they’ll start comparing themselves to others, and they’ll keep cheapening the offer, making it cheaper, thinking that it’s going to be the thing that suddenly gets them traction, but actually, it’s because they haven’t done the thing that we’ve been talking about, which is really finding that audience and solving their problems. That’s why no one’s buying, not because it’s, you know, a few pounds or dollars more a month.
Jeremy Redman
At the early stages, it’s about can you get them to open their wallet at all. Is the problem worth anything? So let’s say you’re you’re a newbie, and you’re untested, and you don’t have the CV. How do you sell your services? It’s like, let me let me prove it to you first, then open your wallet, I’m going to do thi. So like, that’s why it’s good to have the the human to human interaction. Doing work for nothing for two or three days, versus spending six days finding anyone who will just take your call, if I said, you will pay for nothing, I built this thing, built a software, that will help address your problems, will, you give me 15 minutes to just yell at me your problems. And like just getting in talking with customers talking with them getting in the door.
Those are the challenges at the beginning, then you can go doctor, pay me nothing upfront. Just give me I’m going to help you. Let me see if I can address these couple things over the next few days. Let me see if I can build something. Let me see if I can if our software can fix this. If it can’t, no worries, if it can you let me know how much you would this is what this would cost. Now you’re doing you know, like, like price estimation, and like, you’re really testing the market value and what the customer will pay for you. You’re running so many experiments. Right? What the and you’re just learning versus if you’d like to grant No, I’m not taking anything less than five grand a month for this. Great how many conversations you’re gonna have, especially when you’re untested. Versus let me see if I can help you. Let me see if I can help you. Worst case scenario, it’s a very cheap therapy session, because you’re just directing all your problems at me.
Matthew Todd
You’ll learn where the value is, you’ll learn whether you’ve saved them, you know, 1000, 10,000 100,000, you’ve grown their business, but you’ll learn that if you really embed yourself within their business and their world. You always learn something from the way they they talk about their problems as well.
Jeremy Redman
Yeah, there’s a nuance and every time you pitch, you get better, you gain more confidence. Trust me, it’s hard to sit there and like, sell someone. I get it. It’s the most weird most, because it easy to sit back on a keyboard and try to send an email campaign and like, it’s another thing going face to face. Would you rather get a dozen no’s? Or a dozen, absolutely I will. Guards down. Do that only at the early stages, but then perfect over time. So then you’ll perfect the close.
Matthew Todd
The worst thing is is not the yeses, or the no’s, actually. I think it’s the oh, that sounds really interesting. Yeah. We’ll definitely get back to you in a couple of months. The polite, no.
Jeremy Redman
It’s the same with like, investors, stakeholders everywhere. I almost approach it somewhat assholey. Like, I know what you’re doing. Now, tell me the truth? Well, like, we don’t really need that. Okay, cool. Great, amazing. You have to challenge at the beginning, you have to, because you learn the real reasons why they said yes or no, you have to. You know, how to better sense that no, or know to address it earlier in the process with the next customer are the next investor.
Matthew Todd
Yeah, exactly. And if they say we need to think about it, if they say no, like, don’t take the excuse that they give, because you know, especially over here, they’re probably just trying to be polite, and find a way to get off the call without offending anyone. But it’s like, well work out. Why is it because they don’t have budget? Is that because they need someone else’s approval? That has the budget? Is it because it? Yeah, it doesn’t really solve the problems, or they haven’t got the problems that they said they did. You know, there’s there’ll be something behind, you can take into the next one.
Jeremy Redman
Absolutely. Another strategy is obviously, you can do a free trial, but collect their credit card up front. I’m gonna send you the link to sign up. Alot of people like our VP of sales, does it online, grabs their information grabs and that’s such a skill. It’s such an amazing skill that he has. I don’t even know I possess that. You know. So it’s like building the right relationships, making the right steps and learning over time.
Matthew Todd
Yeah, I think that’s a general theme for everything we’ve, we’ve talked about about so far.
Jeremy Redman
It’s really good to have some really good natural natural vibes. You’re really good at creating that’s natural lives. Great work.
Matthew Todd
It’s been a good good conversation. Although I’m sure we could talk for hours more, I want to respect your time as well as make sure that we don’t like overwhelm people and I think we have got a really good theme going through everything we’ve talked about so far. Listening to your audience, being patience, asking the right questions and not being afraid just to spend the time to really work stuff out whatever that may be at whatever stage of the business that is. So just to round things off, and you know, I hope we do have a part two to follow this. In terms of where task magic is, and what you’re trying to do next, what does that look like?
Jeremy Redman
So we’re trying to release the freemium version of the product, where you can download the desktop app. It’s obviously cumbersome. It’ll have limits, but it allows people to try it, let’s like the gateway drug. It’s like the marijuana of our product. Like you want to get people hooked on that. So then they go into the harder stuff. An amazing analogy, by the way, because that’s what everybody wants, to make a product that is like drugs. That you just need it, you need it in your system, and that system being the business.
So we’re building out the function to do that. Obviously, it takes resources, we’re limited on resources at the moment. Making sure that we have that freemium version, getting people so that they can try it, because right now, it’s just outbound sales and referrals is how we’ve grown. You can email me at jeremy@taskmagic.com. I can give you access. But it’s just, it’s all inbound referrals, like, emailing people. We’ve had enough there, but we want to get people that giving a taste or seeing how it works. It’ll be more mass available here in the near in the coming months.
Matthew Todd
Sounds like a really good plan, it definitely sounds like it’s not something that you rush into. I think too many people then miss out all the important stuff about their audience and make it all about the products first, but it’s it’s still not, you know, product lead growth is not just about the product is still about the audience and solving their problems, but just making it easy and frictionless for them to experience the way the product solves their problems.
Jeremy Redman
Part of that scaling up is doing the things that don’t scale up. It’s so it sounds counterintuitive, but you can scale up too quickly and your business will fail.
Jeremy Redman
100% agree with you. It’s that like, I mean, this is Inside the ScaleUp like it takes time to get to the scale up. Part of that scaling up is doing the things that don’t scale up. It’s so it sounds counterintuitive, but you can scale up too quickly and your business will fail. It will just crumble. Don’t get impatient by other people’s products, build and grow, you will get to the scale up. That is the secret of inside the scale up.
Matthew Todd
That’s a great place to leave it. So Jeremy, thank you very much for a very interesting conversation. I’m sure audience will will agree with that as well. I’m looking forward to catching up and seeing how things are going.
Jeremy Redman
Thanks. You Matthew.
Matthew Todd
Thank you for joining me on this episode of Inside the ScaleUp. Remember for the show notes and in depth resources from today’s guest, you can find these on the website insidethescaleup.com. You can also leave feedback on today’s episode, as well as suggest guests and companies you’d like to hear from. Thank you for listening.